There was an article posted here a few months back lamenting how SF is gradually losing stoops and gaining garages, with driveways that cross the sidewalk.
People enter and exit their cars in the closed garage, never having the chance to greet their neighbors on the way, and also make what was traditionally a pedestrian-only zone more hazardous since now they drive across it (often with poor visibility).
As someone who has always lived in the Midwest or suburbs, when we bought our first house a couple years ago I was happy to have it be a rowhome in a small downtown, with an actual porch out front sticking into the sidewalk. I can sit out there on my bench swing thing and interact with my neighbors in a natural, informal way.
I've noticed something similar in Chicago. We have an 'eyes-on-the-street' clause in our building code, which requires a certain number of windows face the street. I've noticed a lot of buildings that are being built have 'windows' which look into some interstitial space that prevents the people in the inside from seeing the people on the street and vice versa.
I personally think that this falls under the heading of what I deem anti-social behavior. Anti-social behavior isn't limited to property crime and violence, it's anything that dehumanizes your fellow man. The people who construct their life so they only interact with exactly the people whom they want are the most anti-social people I can imagine. I personally think they should move to the suburbs if they can't stand the thought of interacting with a neighbor.
Thankfully in Chicago we have alleys, and you have to pay a yearly surcharge for the 'no parking' area created by street cuts, so there aren't many driveways crossing sidewalks.
Either I've been introduced to a new meaning of the term of you are mistaken about the meaning. I'm going to look it up. Perhaps I could persuade you to do the same.
Also, by wording it as "extreme", it becomes a bit difficult to have a debate. Doing "too much" of anything is by definition more than what is harmless.
In the case from the context above, one interpretation is just people's desire for privacy. I'd also say that by giving it a name with a negative connotation we are pressuring the people who have preferences that can be described as asocial to be more like the others and that I believe is unfair.
You have been introduced to a new meaning of the term.
I don't think it's especially unfair to argue that engineering to prevent chance interactions should be discouraged, and invoking privacy in this context is a bugaboo - access to privacy really isn't the same thing as making sure that you never have to greet or talk to anyone in a way that isn't planned.
I know a lot of people who don't really have that sort of unplanned interaction with anyone, and they tend to be the same people who think I must be uncommonly brave to use my city's public transit system, which they erroneously fancy to be peopled primarily by dangerous characters. By preserving their ignorance of their fellow people, they free their imaginations to assume the worst, and in a democratic society where such imaginings can quite easily translate into wrongheaded and harmful public policy, I don't think it is at all hard to argue that such ignorance, and such fancy, grows questionable - even dangerous - to the same extent to which it is indulged.
> You have been introduced to a new meaning of the term.
Says who? It's one thing to invent a brand new word, but it's another to modify a word with already established meaning to a slightly different meaning just because some people started using it the wrong way and it stuck. See the word "poignant" for another great example of the active bastardization of English.
I really don't want to get into a pointless debate over prescriptivism, and there is no other kind of debate over prescriptivism. But, here, have some authorities:
Surprisingly, not all of the space inside the CBD is metered. There's actually a fair number of spots in the loop that aren't metered.
Regardless, that's actually a pretty easy question to answer, because Chicago gets charged for every minute a spot isn't available by the company they sold the street parking to.
Inside the loop, the price would be $43,891.30 for every parking spot removed.
Inside the CBD, but outside the loop, the price would be $35,040 for every parking spot removed.
The entire meter deal has been a boondoggle, and the previous mayor has been subpoenaed about it several times but has gotten out of it citing "health issues." It's really screwed over the cities flexibility when it comes to urban planning. Plus Chicago has the most expensive meters in the nation.
Off street parking becomes a more valuable/necessary investment every time the movement to eliminate street parking or densify beyond the natural limits of street parking gains traction.
If we want people to stop needing parking, we need to actually improve transit.
Never thought I would see an article on Philly stoops here on HN! They are certainly low-tech but there's nothing like a cold drink on a stoop with your friends in the summertime.
All of the comments are right, we, in Philly, never called it "Stoop," but simply steps. Stoop seems like an NY word. My mom still sits outside daily in the summer, she doesn't have a misting fan though (I didn't know those were a thing). I'll get her one
Baltimorons call it a "stoop". We use 'em too when there's enough room, otherwise the sidewalk.
Historical note: Baltimore marble stoops were harvested to patch the cracks in DC's Washington Monument after the recent earthquake because they're from the same quarry. (Baltimore's monument needed no such patching and predates the DC monument by 59 years)
Another Baltimorean on Hacker News! And one with a geek code, yet - I didn't know those were still a thing. If you ever find yourself around Hampden, maybe we'll grab a beer some time.
How asocial do you think air-conditioning has made people? The loss of porches, stoops, opening large windows, hanging out outside because you have to, etc. I read once that in NYC, Sheep's Meadow in Central Park was covered with people sleeping overnight on sweltering summer days.
Nowadays you've got to be really actively, intentionally social. It's just too easy to sit on the couch, order food, watch Netflix, browse social media and ignore real life.
I wonder how global warming / climate change will end up bringing us back to that. It will be even more sweltering, and I can imagine air conditioning restrictions similar to today's watering restrictions.
In neighborhoods that are built like this, it doesn't matter..
As the article states. people sit on the stoop.
Perhaps less so as you mention due to indoor distractions, but still quite a bit.
Much as the suburbanite sits in the back yard, the true townhouser (not those phony things with garages in the front and no alleyways), sits on the stoop.
Chicago apartment buildings have a similar design either like this or near ground-level front porch, and when I was a kid near everyone was using them in the summer. You'd be hard pressed to walk down a block and not see near a third of the units with people hanging out in front. They became like backyards, BBQ's and all, but more much social because you could interact with your neighbors.
Today, condo development has destroyed some of these designs and the old apartment buildings don't ever seem to have anyone on the stoop or front porch. I guess people are more indoors orientated now or simply less social with their neighbors, at least in more gentrified neighborhoods. I barely know my neighbors to be honest. Sounds like the times haven't really changed much in Philly.
I just wrote a comment that is nearly identical to yours.
Interesting story -- I actually moved to East Garfield Park a few years ago. I honestly thought I would never interact with anyone in the neighborhood, given the fact that I'm from a completely different socioeconomic background. I know way more people now that I have in any other neighborhood I've lived in. Everyone is outside when it is nice out.
In my Minneapolis neighborhood, it's all 100 year old bungalows. Some have proper porches, most have stoops, and the stoops are set back from the street. Even the proper porches tend to be three-season or four-season (hey, it gets cold here!), with screens or windows isolating from the outside.
I like sitting out on the stoop and playing guitar, but it's not an opportunity to really interact with the neighbors much. At least I'm putting myself out there, though.
I wonder if you live down the street from me :) There's a guy who occasionally plays guitar while I'm walking home from the bus. Maybe I should go say hi.
Hi! I'm a different front porch guitar playing guy in Mpls, near Lake Harriet. It's been getting too sunny out there lately though, because we're losing all of our boulevard ash trees.
We lost seven curb lindens (including ours) on my end of the block a few years back, the summer solstice windstorm that left much of south Minneapolis without power for days. My block took it particularly hard, trees down all over the street, smashed cars. So yeah, not enough shade for us either.
I'm waiting for the emerald ash borers to finally get to the beautiful, mature ash in my backyard. :( I love living in a forest, but hate the tree maladies. Luckily, they replanted all our curb trees with diversity, rather than the monocultures of older Minneapolis streets.
Meta-comment: this thread seems to be HN's stoop. There's only 29 comments and we've got people talking about little bits of their lives, where they've lived, their current neighborhoods. It's pretty nice to have this little snippet of semi-off-topic HN.
Is there any interest in a "weekly stoop" thread where people just comment about whatever interesting thing that comes up, nothing in particular? Things people find interesting, little discussions, things people want to know about. The kind of things that aren't really big enough for separate submissions, but could make up a few comments. I feel like that'd be pretty interesting. Has it been tried before?
I've always been really fond of the front porch in Chicago for a similar reason. They are a bit more elaborate -- they are often covered, and are much larger as a whole, but they are pretty much the perfect place for 4 or 5 people to hang out.
I've met so many people because they are drinking on a porch or on a rear deck and I've started talking to them, and next thing you know I'm drinking a beer.
There's often a sunroom/living room/den connected to the front porch in Chicago. This room is known as the frunch room. I'm not entirely sure how to spell it, but it's a portmanteau of front and porch.
People enter and exit their cars in the closed garage, never having the chance to greet their neighbors on the way, and also make what was traditionally a pedestrian-only zone more hazardous since now they drive across it (often with poor visibility).
As someone who has always lived in the Midwest or suburbs, when we bought our first house a couple years ago I was happy to have it be a rowhome in a small downtown, with an actual porch out front sticking into the sidewalk. I can sit out there on my bench swing thing and interact with my neighbors in a natural, informal way.