> at least here the things that can get you into that status are discrete, well-defined actions.
According to the article, the actions described seem like discrete and well-defined like giving false information about terrorism, and not paying fines.
> According to the article, the actions described seem like discrete and well-defined like giving false information about terrorism, and not paying fines.
That's just the sales pitch to make it seem reasonable and positive to the average person. It's naive to think that this social credit system won't have a political component. Here are some descriptions of some current pilot programs that make that much clearer:
> But the fourth category, behaviour and preference, is where it gets interesting.
> Under this system, something as innocuous as a person's shopping habits become a measure of character. Alibaba admits it judges people by the types of products they buy. "Someone who plays video games for ten hours a day, for example, would be considered an idle person," says Li Yingyun, Sesame's Technology Director. "Someone who frequently buys diapers would be considered as probably a parent, who on balance is more likely to have a sense of responsibility." So the system not only investigates behaviour - it shapes it. It "nudges" citizens away from purchases and behaviours the government does not like.
> Friends matter, too. The fifth category is interpersonal relationships. What does their choice of online friends and their interactions say about the person being assessed? Sharing what Sesame Credit refers to as "positive energy" online, nice messages about the government or how well the country's economy is doing, will make your score go up.
If they're slurping up your purchases and social media for your credit score, it's going to be a lot more than about if you lie or fail to pay fines.
Also what might "false information about terrorism" really mean in practice? Vouching for your friend when the government thinks he's a dissident?
>Sharing what Sesame Credit refers to as "positive energy" online, nice messages about the government or how well the country's economy is doing, will make your score go up.
Sounds like a propaganda botnet that uses gamification to spread influence evenly. By incentivizing many intermittent points of influence the propaganda cannot easily be filtered from the rest of the data.
Sure it can just filter out anything that obviously comes from China or seems similar to content coming from that direction. Oh you meant in China? Have fun with that.
Sesame Credit is fairly extreme, but it's completely separate from China's social credit system (which doesn't exist yet). Sesame Credit is run by Alibaba, a private company, and there's no way China wants them to have that much power.
> Sesame Credit is run by Alibaba, a private company, and there's no way China wants them to have that much power.
That's true, but I see no reason for the government system to take a more moderate approach.
I don't really buy that Alibaba would have too much power, either. I'm pretty sure the CCP could swat it down pretty easily if it gets too uppity.
> China's social credit system (which doesn't exist yet)
My understanding is that things like Sesame credit are much like pilot projects -- if their ideas work to the CCP's liking, they'll make it into the government system.
How is that open and fluid? Did you verify it by reading the law or did you just assume Big Scary China will do bad things? Lots of states in the US will suspend your driver's license for failing to pay non-traffic-related fines.
It's not inconceivable for China to make all people part of a particular province required to pay a fee/fine for something arbitrary and take away their privileges to travel if they don't. They already don't even need that much to take away passports of Uyghur people in the northwest of China.
I once got 15 speed camera tickets on purpose, they are civil tickets, and the goal was to force them to serve me. It worked, and I successfully wasted their time until the server(s) stopped trying. Try that in China:)
Later we voted the cameras out >2 to 1. Try that in China too.
Second, you just made the argument for me, as you implied, fines are easy to define and redefine.
According to the article, the actions described seem like discrete and well-defined like giving false information about terrorism, and not paying fines.