I rode a non-electric kick scooter (Xootr) for three years working in downtown SF. It is by far the best form of transitional transport there is and superior to bikes for 99% of actual real world travel. It was easily 4-5 times faster than walking and more importantly suddenly made the entire city open due to how insanely efficient it was for "glueing" together various forms of public transport. I could hop from transport hub to transport hub insanely quickly and the entire system suddenly worked in a way that did not happen with walking or biking. Some people say walk, but it's too slow and a 1/2 mile "walk" section on a complicated transport route would be impractical on foot. Biking is fast enough for long trips but massively inconvenient for quick trips to a store or park or restaurant. A scooter on the other hand could be with me all day, I can take it into the store with me, I can take it on the bus. Transition cost from arrival to getting on the bus or walking into a store was seconds instead of minutes with a bike. The scooter had tons of upsides and the only downside was, at the time, that it was kind of embarrassing to be seen on. People talk to much about the "last-mile" as if the only travel people do is on massive transport corridors to and from work. The scooter solves the transport mesh, the hops and transitions of actual day-to-day living.
I’ve been thinking about bike vs scooter a lot lately too. Austin is overrun with scooters and I used them for a little while before finding the electric Uber Jump bikes. They seem superior to scooters in every way in Austin, which makes the 20:1 ratio of scooters to bikes a bit baffling.
But I can see your point in SF where I use to walk 5 blocks from my apartment to the muni train and then another five blocks from the train to the office. Scooters would have been ideal there.
The e-bikes have one massive advantage in Austin - you can take them on the Butler Trail that runs the width of the Austin along the river. You can get almost anywhere of interest very quickly on one of the jump bikes.
There’s also no useful bus or train transport in Austin (I thought SF was bad) so you’re not using the small transport to move small distances between larger transport as often.
We have the Jump e-bikes here in Atlanta, and I also prefer them to scooters. There are a lot of old roads and sidewalks with cracks that make riding a scooter can be dangerous. With the small wheels, you really have to pay attention to the road ahead of you.
Unfortunately, I received an email earlier this month that Jump is pulling all the e-bikes from the city. I wonder if operating costs or cost fo replacement make them unrealistic?
Ugh. Build dedicated lanes, then, Atlanta. A scooter-pedestrian collision isn't pleasant, but it has a far, far better outcome for the pedestrian than a car-scooter collision does for the scooter.
I speak as someone who bikes and walks, and is as annoyed as everyone else by scooters -- they still have a right to personal safety.
I bought my own e-bike for use in Atlanta, and commuted exclusively by bike for nearly a year, including the previous winter. I had about a 4 mile commute and it turned it into a leisurely 15-20 minute ride, partially on the beltline. Parking is free, and I could bring my bike into my office. The real advantage of e-bikes is just how easy it is to climb hills with a 500-750 watt motor.
I've moved jobs and am out in the burbs, but plan on moving back pretty soon.
Also in Austin, and agree. Bikes just feel so much safer to me, especially at higher speeds for longer distances. I've already almost died twice on scooters, and have almost no close calls on my bike on a regular basis.
You have the deal with the bike afterwords. Go for brunch in the mission and your friends are going back to the outer sunset with a scooter just fold it up and put it in the car with a bike either hope it's there when you get back, bike all the way, or go home then head over alone.
This exactly: bikes require planning and strategy and are not good for improvisational day-to-day things like you described. Bikes make walking easier but all other forms of travel like bus, train or taxi/uber/cars more difficult or impossible.
In Copenhagen it's often the opposite: the rest of the group came by bike, they're within 20m of the current bar, the person on foot will have to turn up later. Or we all walk.
(Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free.)
What's bike theft like in Copenhagen? I have two bikes but I drive to brunch because I'm afraid of losing my bike to a thief and parking is easier to deal with than having to carry my lock.
Leave the lock at work, locked to the rack or a fence. That might not work for brunch.
Most people use either old or fairly cheap (<€500) city bikes. We only lock the rear wheel; if you want to you can pick up the bike and walk off with it.
Some people do have nicer bikes, and they chain the bikes to something solid. I did this for 6 months when my city bike was new.
Most bikes are beaters and wouldn't be worth stealing for it's value, although I've been told every Dane has stolen a bike once in their life when in need of transport.
> Also, the suburban trains and taxis carry bikes for free.
Sure, but how many will fit on one train/taxi? Here in Vancouver we have two bike-slots per bus and ~4 per train (which is actually just general accessibility-device space, for e.g. powered-wheelchairs, and is almost always taken already.)
Is that the case in the winter too? I just started bike commuting in SF and have been wondering how it works in bike oriented colder countries when it starts raining/snowing.
In Netherlands nearly everyone cycles for nearly all local trips all year round regardless of the weather. Nothing beats the convenience of a bike.
I use mine for every trip longer than a 5 minute walk and less than a 45 mins bike ride. That encompasses the whole of Amsterdam and its outlying suburbs.
In bad weather, people have suitable rain gear and accept getting a bit wet. Or cycle with umbrellas. As the Dutch say, "there's no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing".
Here in the Netherlands during winter, bike paths are cleared/salted before most residential streets. That together with the sheer amount of bicycles keeps all mayor bike paths clear enough, though it does get slippery.
Well sure. I mean, bundling up is possible, just ask anyone in Chicago. My hunch is that places with healthy bike infrastructure are also dense enough to make most trips short, minimizing time spent outside.
A car can be parked on the street (at least in theory, I'm aware SF's parking may be less amenable), and has a high likelihood of being there and intact when you return.
Without bike-parking infrastructure -- ubiquitous racks -- bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked.
I've lived where cycling was well-supported and routes and racks reasonable. And where not. For SF, hills, parking, and traffic all work against cycling.
> bikes are far less likely to be found where left, and far more likely to be damaged, vandalised, and/or have components nicked.
I don't own a car anymore, but when I did I had countless break ins. Most times nothing was taken. Petty theft & vandalism is a problem here regardless of vehicle type.
Citibike in NYC is a dumpster fire. Same price as subway ride for a 30 minute ride. Each ride segment has to be 30 minutes or less or they start charging you by the minute. You can’t check out more than one bike on a single account. The full docks don’t correctly report in, meaning even though the dock is full, you can’t get a time extension while you go out of your way to return the bike.
Been using CitiBike for 3 years. None of these have been an issue for me, except for the 30 minute time limit, but I was going from WTC to 96th st which took me 40 minutes
Closing the last half mile on a trip on scooter is a breeze. Sometimes the nearest bike docks at start and end total half a mile distance. Dockless bike? They are generally quite sparse where I am.
IRT bicycles in relation to buses and trains, mass transit can be designed with bikes in mind. Dallas is not exactly known for having the best mass transit system around, but DART buses have easy to use bike racks on the front and the light rail trains have handicap accessible cars with flat loading platforms and hooks to hang your bike to keep it somewhat out of the way.
Your points on other forms of travel, such as regular cars + bicycles, are definitely true.
For people who are REALLY into bikes, a "rinko bike" helps with this. For general use however, I'm convinced about using a scooter as described above by the GGP.
I've just bought the xootr, will see how it goes. But part of the rationale for trying it (as opposed to my bike) is that I wouldn't feel too self- conscious about taking the scooter onto public transport during rush hour.
It's all marginal, but when it's standing room only, the extra space taken up by the folding bikes is just eeking that little bit more into the "socially unacceptable dick- move" category. Might not be applicable if you're not in place where public transport gets that busy, but definitely a consideration here.
Plus my hope is the ability to carry it easily one handed, and store it under (or leaving it standing vertically) my desks at both work and at home (as opposed to my bike, which resides underground in the garage), and that i can conceivably ride it in a suit.
Plus, I can access both sidewalks and paths and roads (which is a legal consideration here)
As I said, we'll see how it goes...but it seems to make sense on paper...
While the folding bike concept is cool, and it's actually really handy to be able to take them on trains where a non-folding would be disallowed, and while they are also more convenient than a full size bike, they're still big and cumbersome when folded up.
I can take mine on the bus, but that wouldn't be my first choice. I can take a regular Lyft, but not a Lyft Line with it. (I mean I could, but that's a dick move.) You're "that guy" at the bar after work.
Like I said, I own one (well, a Dahon), and it's definitely useful, more convenient than a full size, non-folding bike, but it doesn't actually solve the issue, merely alleviates it somewhat.
The Brompton is really the only game in town for urban folding bikes. Uniquely, the Brompton locks into a compact and balanced package that can be comfortably carried in one hand. If you opt for a model with a pannier rack (or buy an EazyWheels kit) the folded bike can be pulled around like a wheeled suitcase. There are lots of good folding bikes, but only one good folded bike.
Depends on what you're looking for. I found the wheel size a bit too small.
I think this is a fair comparison and gives the advantage to the Brompton in small folded size, although its weight is not something to be taken lightly (!) http://anatolyivanov.com/prose/en/AI.7.00109/
I use a bike to get around SF the majority of the time as well. But lately I've been switching it up and using a skateboard for short trips. Riding the bike definitely isn't 'impractical', but the skateboard is so much less of a hassle.
You don't have to bother carrying a lock (or walk to the corner to find the nearest pole to lock it to for that matter). And, don't tell my Mom, but not fiddling with a helmet and lights is huge too.
I spent three years doing this in SF. You definitely want a backpack you can attach clip on lights (FWIW my setup was a Goruck bag with Blackburn lights). I've found drivers pay even less attention to skateboarders than bicyclists. The lights help a little.
If the speed is the same, and the places traveled are the same, and the likelihood of an accident is the same...
Can you imagine going to a car dealership, and coming across a car with 10x the stopping distance and a center of mass twice as high as a Civic and the salesman telling you "it's just as safe so long as you're traveling the same speed and same places"? Would you buy that claim for a second?
I've avoided numerous accidents by being able to stop quickly on my bike, or by making a sharp turn. This varies greatly just between different bicycles -- a mountain bike has much better stopping distance than a road bike. There's obviously also a big difference between a skateboard and a bicycle.
There's also, I think, a steeper learning curve between skateboard and bike, though that may be because learning to bike as a child is more common. There's at least a difference in skill levels. I mostly know the limits of my bike. (e.g., how hard can I turn without skidding out?) and while a skilled skateboarder may be on par with me on that, I'm not. I can bike tens of thousands of miles without falling. I'm nowhere near the skill level of being able to do that on a skateboard.
Being able to eject yourself is also valuable. I suspect a skateboarder would have better "eject and run" options than a cyclist, so that's a point in their favor. (I've had my back tire run over twice, and both times I was able to simply run forward over the handlebars, and my hands (and head) didn't touch the grounds, but it's not always going to be that easy.)
Skateboards are slower than bikes unless you're really pushing it or bombing down a hill. Skateboarding is a skill and you can do all sorts of maneuvers to stop quickly, such as a side stop.
I think the main reason why skateboards are worse injury wise is many of them try to do tricks constantly, while most bicyclists are not in that category. Also the small wheels are more sensitive to potholes.
> the main reason why skateboards are worse injury wise is many of them try to do tricks constantly
Surely it's simply because of scenarios like a small rock's ability to insta-stop your board, basically guaranteeing your injury. Pretty much every time I've ever been knocked off a skateboard during my commute would be something you wouldn't even think/care about if you were on a bike. Not even close. One is a bike, the other is a heavy, tall pole (you) on a low, rolling platform. One is far more precarious, like keeping a reverse pendulum balanced.
Hell, the most common injury I've seen on a skateboard is just someone stepping onto one, misplacing their center of mass, and the board just rocketing out from under them, and then bruising their tailbone/wrists. Even an inexperienced bicyclist doesn't have a fail case close to that.
Most people really can't run much over 7-10 mph. A bike and a skateboard both easily go faster than this. Eject and run is not really an option unless you want to face plant or do a skilled tuck and roll.
This gets more true the further you are from sprinting on a regular basis. And really unless you have practice you're not going to match speeds with the ground anyway
I have to keep my feet under me for a few dozen steps while I come to a stop. I might not be able to do that at 20 MPH, but I think I can at 12 MPH. I can at whatever speeds I was going when people ran over my back wheel. (Once was a parking lot, so I was probably going fairly slowly, but the other was biking downhill.)
Go to the gym, turn the treadmill up to full speed and jump onto it, and see how it goes. That'll be a good data based test. The mill will drop speed by about 30% and most mills don't go up super high. Take a face plant for science.
If you did then you're probbably faster than normal and better balance than normal. I'm pretty sure I'd pull a hammy immediately. My coworker immediately face planted and broke arm and collar bone.
I commute on a Boosted Board and after three summers of doing so, I'm a very confident rider of it. But I wouldn't ever dream of going without a helmet, even for short trips around the neighbourhood.
I rode a skateboard every day for 8 years, from high school through college and thought helmets where stupid. I got a Boosted board last year and after one ride bought my first helmet. Would never use it without one now.
I feel like it's easier for a skateboarding miscalculation to slap you hard on the ground than a bike. A bike has really good brakes compared to a skateboard. Sure you don't need the helmet?
> Some people say walk, but it's too slow and a 1/2 mile "walk" section on a complicated transport route would be impractical on foot.
Wait, are you being serious? That's less than a 10 minute walk, and you probably need the exercise anyways... And SF has fantastic walking weather compared to most of the world.
I live in a nice part of town; I work in a nice part of town; but the straight-line walking connection I have to make in the middle is in the bad part of town. I'd rather not.
> a bit of shopping, to see your local communities
It's possible that's exactly what you're doing on the scooter. Maybe your destination is a local establishment to meet up with friends and you don't want to be a sweaty mess upon arrival.
But up on the horse he is faster than a pedestrian, it's better exercise than an e-scooter, and he doesn't have to worry about stepping in the ubiquitous poop.
Your right. Electrics can do that kind of speed but I was on a kick scooter and probably in more of a 3-4 x range and probably averaged 9mph after lights, pedestrians and the like are taken into account.
The Xootr in particular glides really really well.
If you're used to the cheapo Razor scooters, it's worlds apart, even from the larger-wheeled Razor A5.
The relative speed depends on the terrain. If you're on concrete sidewalks, like I am, I'd say it's 3x faster. If you're on asphalt, then 4x is reasonable. Downhill, 5x easily.
I got the cheaper Dash model with the narrow plastic deck for US $200. If I were going longer distances (more than a mile/1.5km) then one of the more expensive wider-deck models would definitely be worth it.
They top out at 15 mph in SF. I wish they went faster. I am a cyclist and usually maintain close to 20 mph (not counting lights). It's kind of maddening not to be able to go 20 or 25 on them.
I averaged about half the time vs walking when I used my kick scooter regularly. Reading the next though, I think they are gaining time by linking transit hubs.
I've basically had the same experience but picking up skateboarding again. I spent a lot of time skateboarding as a kid, and it turns out it's also a really efficient, compact way of getting around a city too! I now feel a lot more comfortable moving further away from BART while maintaining a consistent commute time.
