It would likely have been the end had she not invited me to ice cream.

I’ll share this other funny story. I had decided I was not going to be aggressive making the first move. Fun as they were, I was past looking for sexually-centered ‘relationships’, and I felt moving a little slower than usual would help me find the long term relationship I was looking for.

I show up for our fourth date. She’s curt and says come in. We get to the top of the stairs and she asks me to sit down and says “we need to talk”. Yes, THAT line. She says I think we should end this. I say ok, why? Well, I just don’t think you’re into me. Uh ok, why is that? Well you’ve only hugged me and haven’t even tried to kiss me. I immediately planted a passionate kiss on her lips. And explained I decided I was going to let her tell me when she was ready for more intimate touching. We went on the date and had a good time.

I really like you and I really really like your wife. Your wife is proactive and you’re spending your evening giving love advice to a sad 41 year old lady. You two rock.

I read this exchange between us to my wife. I’m not religious and don’t know if you are or not, but she noted one thing missing from your list of things you’ve tried is going to Church.

Anyway, I do want to say your initial presentation vs your interactions are very different. You come across as kind, thoughtful and caring, three foundational features of any mate that can go the distance. Just remember it’s about numbers, there is that magic number of dates you need to endure before you find him. Set a goal of more dates per week than you’re currently doing to accelerate your way to that magic number. I was at 2/week when I found my DW.

Not GP, but I'll add to this: yes, sometimes the woman needs to be assertive, but you can do it such that the guy doesn't even notice.

I was a year into my marriage when my wife claimed that she was the one who did the pushing of the relationship forward. I said, "That's not true, I did." She asked me what I did to do it, and I opened my mouth. And stopped. I couldn't think of a single thing. My wife just stood there with a knowing smile on her face.

And that's when I learned that my wife had had the reins of the relationship from the beginning.

You can do the same thing; suggest things, make it seem like the guy is making decisions when he is really deciding between things that you have already chosen. Invite him not on dates, but to "help" you on certain things. (My wife pretended to want to learn programming, so I went to her home to do so. Then after suffering through that for 15 minutes, she asked if I wanted dinner. She eventually turned it into a full date. She boiled the frog with that date.

Yes, I was really that clueless. At one point I asked my mom if what my future wife was doing was a hint. She said, "No, they're not." I said, "Oh." I was confused until my mom said, "Those are outright, blatant flirting."

Yeah, I was that clueless.

Now, not every man will be that clueless, but I think what my wife did would have worked on a lot of them. And for others, you can still be more subtle.

Yes. One thing I am definitely going to take away from this is being more assertive. Really appreciate your thoughts.

> A lot of dating books recommend getting really specific about what you want

Also, from my personal experience, what you want is going to change over time. And even if someone checks your boxes today, they’re unlikely to be that same person in 10 years.

Being a parent changed me a lot (hopefully for the better) and 20s me, 30s me, 40s me are all pretty different guys in terms of priorities, willingness to listen to others, etc.

I echo other comments and say the priority is having a communication channel and the willingness to adapt.

>Also, from my personal experience, what you want is going to change over time. And even if someone checks your boxes today, they’re unlikely to be that same person in 10 years.

And what you can afford is going to change over time.

I know I love to grow and change and adapt. It’s a little challenging to tell if the person you meet is an adapter or a communicator . Everyone says communication in a relationship is important but the reality can be different. Is there some way early on you could tell your partner was someone willing to adapt ?

I suppose traditionally this is what one learns during the fiancée stage of the relationship and given your accelerated timeline that’s definitely going to be a challenge. Unfortunately the only way I know to tell is to actually go through a couple of tough spots and see what happens and forcing it might not work. On the plus side, if you do find a test that is predictive and can also be used early in a relationship, you’ll be a best selling author of relationship books for sure.

Love this: "having a communication channel and the willingness to adapt"

Dating books are written by people who are in the business of selling books. I would doubt many elderly couples or parties of who are happily-married for decades write dating or relationship advice books. Keep your money and talk to happy couples: it's better information for cheaper.

I think that's a really good point. I do try to only read dating books by people who have happy, successful marriages. All the better if it was a challenge for them to find someone. People who found a happy marriage effortlessly often can't give that great advice because they didn't go through the struggle and find a solution.

My grandparents were both from extremely broken homes and married young (15 and 21). They were together until they passed, for 70+ years. Even so, they split for about 6 months at one point but came back together.

They:

Chose their battles.

Didn't hold grudges regarding resolving disagreements with compromises and solutions.

Worked together in things as simple as cleaning up the dishes (~6 minutes usually).

Spent a great deal of time together.

Never forgot love meant showing respect, kindness, and tenderness towards each other.

---

In my opinion, a keeper is found by gradually intuiting answers to the extreme fundamental questions in life:

1. Is the vibe approaching effortless, real, natural, and safe? This alone isn't enough but it's a good sign.

2. Do they tick most of the ideal adjectives of a sense of humor, honest, reliable, respectable, fascinating, wise, and not a liability?

3. Who would you (and they) prefer to be stuck on a proverbial deserted island with them?

3. Would you'd trust them implicitly with decisions about your life and everything else if you were away or incapacitated?

4. Have you seen their reactions to not getting their way, under pressure, and with people not in positions of power?

5. Would you die and/or kill (if absolutely essential) for them, and vice-versa again?

6. Are both of you better together than apart overall?

That's my 2c. My bill is in the mail. :)