> The California Energy Commission estimates the sea [Salton Sea] might produce 600k metric tons of lithium carbonate per year.
> The land under the lake is a patchwork of ownership spread across three primary entities: the federal government – mostly the Bureau of Reclamation and the Bureau of Land Management, the Imperial Irrigation District (IID), and the Torres Martinez Desert Cahuilla Indians.
Should be interesting over the next 10-20 years as battery production increases and efforts are made to secure reliable sources of lithium.
Hopefully, this results in an actual remediation of one of California's worst environmental disasters and not a repeat of the environmental problems caused by uranium mining on Navajo land in northeast AZ and northwest NM during the Cold War.
I’m not sure the drying of a man-made lake quite qualifies as an environmental disaster, though the smell certainly isn’t pleasant. But it’s definitely not the largest environmental in California. That would be the destruction of millions of acres of wetlands in the Central Valley from the dry and vanished Tulare Lake northward. Next is the desertifying low Sierra as forests are replaced by chaparral and grasslands somewhat permanently. Third is the desertification of the Owens Valley. Fourth is air pollution which continues to be quite deadly. Fifth is DDT, which is mostly gone but still poses a risk in offshore birds near an undersea dumping ground.
Anyway Salton Sea doesn’t even crack the top five anthropogenic natural disasters in California.
>Fourth is air pollution which continues to be quite deadly
That's part of why the Salton Sea drying up would be so disastrous. For the last 100 years, as water as evaporated it's been refilled with runoff from agricultural waste, a nearby superfund site, and other locations that probably should become superfund sites. All that runoff brings fertilizer, pesticides, etc that just sit at the bottom forever... Until the shoreline recedes, the dusty playa blows off and all that nasty stuff goes back into the air. Even with the current state of the Salton Sea, childhood asthma rates are way higher than elsewhere in the state.
It's not just that the dust coming off of the lake smells bad—it's toxic. And given the nature of man-made lakes (i.e., being near other man-made things like homes), it means that the drying of the lake has immediate health effects to the surrounding community.
Not to say that the rest of the things you mention aren't ecological disasters as well, but likely none are so immediately hazardous to the surrounding communities.
The environmental DDT you complain about, and the air pollution which you complain about are actually both problems that stand to get worse as the lake dries. As it dries, it and exposes more of these chemicals and particulates that were once buried under water--now able to be carried freely by the wind.
The same thing is happening around Salt Lake City.
Paradise, CA would beg to differ, but point taken. I just think it’s important to consider long-term, delocalized damage in addition to points of obvious damage like the Salton Sea.
It isn't really a man made lake. It's a lake in a watershed that has been substantially altered. The lake wouldn't be there naturally in the form that it started off in after the accident.
But none of the water would be diverted if it was not for human intervention. It would have followed the natural course of things.
I mean, absent humans messing around with the Colorado River, Lake Cahuilla[1] would've eventually refilled, and then dried up, and then refilled like it's done for millennia.
How? You push the dust 10000 ft up over the San Jacinto range against the prevailing winds… somehow? You don’t even get a downslope enhancement because the Salton Sea is lower than the Pacific. Or somehow the wind curves through the San Gorgonio Pass and back around to Los Angeles? You and what pressure gradient? I’m a meteorologist, so if you know the dynamics here, please explain.
The first three minutes of that movie are accurate, because a meltwater did in fact halt the thermohaline circulation and end an interglacial period in the past. Of course the thermo part dominates over the haline part now, and the rest is garbage. Tropical storm dynamics over the Rocky Mountains, gimme a break. But my whole atm dynamics class went to see it in a theater and it was fun times.
Would a strong low be enough to help? Sea level isn't really what you care about right, isn't it pressure? And the pass there is <3000ft. I guess I'm thinking about gap winds like what occasionally happens in the Cascades, though that isn't really the same. https://snoqualmiewx.blogspot.com/2019/03/will-it-happen-aga...
I assumed the dust from the Salton sea drying was more of a risk to Palm Springs and Mexicali, the general basin I suppose. And maybe places to the east like Phoenix? Looking at a map that seems like a stretch though.
The gap is pointed in the wrong direction — it’s a funnel on the west side, but mostly open on the east. So you either need to get particulate matter (ie heavier than air) over a barrier taller than the Appalachians, or the wind from that point needs to be lowest energy source — a strong pressure gradient around that bends from northwest to due west. The first is unlikely because most conditions that cause Santa Ana winds come with a strong inversion layer. The second is less likely due to the synoptic situation — and honestly mesoscale too. The storm tracks driven by the jet stream rarely go far enough south for a strong high pressure to be sitting over Arizona or Sonora. Over Nevada or Utah, you get winds from the Great Basin — the wrong direction. But because Arizona is so hot, the rising air keeps pressure a little lower. Low pressure over the San Gabriels or further north will just pull air through all the canyons and passes — not a very long fetch.
It’s definitely a risk to Palm Springs and El Centro. LA is just a breeze too far.
When you get particulate matter that fine, it needs almost no energy to get lifted up way into the atmosphere. the heavier stuff? No, it won't go very far. Lithium dust? It's less dense than the atmosphere. It can go anywhere with not much effort.
That’s not how this works. You don’t get individual Lithium molecules, you get LiCl or LiNO3 mixed with other salts in in sizes from grams to micrograms. The largest bits will fall out of air suspension first.
You can get lithium compounds that are quite light from a brine lake, and the wind can have more than enough energy to shove it around for miles and miles. I've visited brine plants and done direct ground lithium mining. When mining lithium underground, you need very strict respiratory gear, because lithium particulates (especially from the dried clays around lepidolite and tourmaline) are generally fine enough to get past even HEPA filters.
And at that size, it doesn't take much in the way of a breeze to send it all over the place. You can watch it just from your lighting and respiratory exhaust. It just hangs there for a good while in almost-dead air. 'Falling out' takes dozens of minutes.
I visited Slab City and the Salton sea with my family on a day trip from LA. It was a memorable experience, and I would recommend to anyone who is interested. We were inspired by this travelog [0], the history of the area is a cautionary tale.
Correct, I forgot about that and just watched it again after years and realised he didn't go to visit the Slabbers. It would have been fun if he went there and ate something, though.
Even though there is no X in the top right corner of the window, I was able to get it to close by tapping the top right corner of the pop up. Also on mobile safari, latest iOS.
I think the article under estimates how many people live there in winter, and over estimates how many people are there during the summer.
During the winter some camp will host a gathering usually an open mic most days of the week. Hanging out around a camp fire listening to songs one time I commented to my neighbor how I've never heard so many songs about a place before. He said, 'no song writer comes to slab city and doesn't write a song about slab city.
Yes, I lived near there and frequently stayed there. It was a pretty neat place. I met a lot of interesting people. I haven’t been back for almost a decade.
I drove through once; my feeling is that it takes a fair amount of guts to live in the desert-that desert, in the summertime. 120F+ is lethal to the unprepared who are out in in it for more than a brief period.
120F is not lethal when the humidity is low, you're in the shade, and you have water. I lived in Tempe for six years, and it was regularly 115F+ in the summer, hit 118F a handful of times when I was there, and that's not counting the extra heat if you're standing in a parking lot. I used to bicycle four miles to work when it was 115F, and walked a couple times.
If you look at the Wikipedia climate tables for Slab City and Tempe, they're basically identical.
You're correct that it's lethal if you're unprepared, but so are plenty of other places and temperatures at both ends of the spectrum. I wouldn't want to sleep without AC in that kind of heat. But humans have survived temperatures like that for all of history.
While it can be dangerous preparedness is what matters. I've lived in a desert that reaches 115 degrees in summer my entire life. It's not a place you'd visit from somewhere more temperate but it is survivable, even without AC. So-called dry heat is far easier to deal with. The afternoons after a major thunderstorm are typically the worst of all worlds. Generally, if you avoid staying in the sun, stay hydrated, and seek shelter from around 11am to 4pm it's not so bad. Peak badness occurs between 2-4pm in my region.
That's not to say its _easy_ and without AC it can be uncomfortable. But you can survive. If you have an RV, fans, perhaps a make shift swamp cooler, and tin foil on the windows could get the internal temp down below 80 pretty easily.
Generally speaking anything over 100 degrees can be dangerous to the under prepared. At 110 degrees direct sun exposure can be lethal if you are not drinking approx. a quart of water per hour of exposure. But it _all_ comes down to exposure. Shelter changes the entire game.
If you live in this place, can you make your lodgings more comfortable without AC? Would putting a reflective material on top of the shack/caravan help reduce the effect so you can stay inside? And then lay in a bath or something during the hottest period?
Nonsense, I grew up in the Middle East and it was regularly above 120F during the summer. Just wear a hat and make sure you have water. You’re making it sound like you immediately die.
I don't know where in the middle east you lived or if you miscalculated how hot 120F is (it's almost 50c). I'm sure it gets that hot in the middle of the desert but most people in the middle east don't live in the middle of the desert.
I grew up in Israel and 40c (104F) was an unusually hot summer day (you'd get a few days like that per summer, maybe more now due to climate change). More common summer highs were around 30-35c.
EDIT: I underestimated how much hotter the Arabian Peninsula is compared to the Levant - a quick look via google maps puts Doha at 39c right now (at 9am!), while Jerusalem, Damascus & Cairo are at 22c, 24c and 27c respectively!
Kuwait. It is regularly above 45C in the summer. We would wear a hat and long sleeves and play soccer from around noon to 6pm during the hottest part of the day during summer break. Just have to make sure you have water. We also drank copious amounts of minty Laban (yogurt water with mint basically). To be honest I love the heat, all the sweat makes me feel alive.
I don't know exactly where you grew up, but if you factor in humidity the temperature in Riyadh is substantially lower than where I live in Texas. Numerically it's higher, but the low humidity makes it possible to sweat.
And a lot of people die due to heat in the Middle East, and now in Europe in the recent heat waves. Of course it won't kill every single person but it's still a big threat to the unprepared.
I read hyperbole like this all the time and it shocks me.
Have you never been outside in 120F+ temps?
I have spent many years of my life in those temps (Australia, all around Africa). Shade and plenty of drinking water and it's completely fine. Millions of people live their lives in those temps with no AC, no fridge, etc.
I hear the same thing about the cold like "Frostbite in a matter of seconds past -30F". I used to regularly ride my bike to work at -48C (-54.5F) and enjoyed it. With the right layers it was completely fine. By the time I got to work I would take off my jacket, gloves and touque and stand outside with a ton of exposed skin for 2-5 minutes in attempt to cool down. (though my legs were usually numb because I couldn't be bothered wearing more layers)
Please go out and explore and enjoy the world rather than fearing it.
If you generate a crazy fuckton of body heat and then stand outside in those temperatures for only a few minutes, obviously you're gonna be fine. That's not controversial, and NBA players routinely spend a minute or two surrounded by temperatures of -200 degrees as part of whole-body cryotherapy.
Doing that without having sufficient warm clothes or a warm space nearby is very dangerous, because once you've radiated all your stored heat, you will freeze to death.
Likewise, 120F is totally fine if you're well hydrated and in a dry environment.
If you're dehydrated or it's humid, you will die. The wet-bulb temperature that will kill a human being is just 95F.
You SHOULD fear extreme temperatures - if you don't treat them with respect and make sure you're prepared, it's very easy to end up in a terrible situation.
Where in Australia did you live? No where I can find “regularly” hits above 48.9 degrees Celsius.
The reference, the hottest recorded temperature in Australia is 123.2F (50.7c).
Yes it gets into the 40s pretty regularly in a lot of places in Australia. But even 45c in a heatwave is very different to “regularly” living with temperatures close to 50c.
Yeah, I grew up in Adelaide where low 40s were regular occurrences throughout summer, and that's damn hot.
I don't think I've ever experienced 120F (~49c). I guess I wouldn't be worried about dying personally, but I definitely wouldn't want to be outside for too long. Older people though? That probably is potentially fatal.
I'm in Adelaide and high 40s is approaching a record. Think we had the record or close to it a few years ago at around 47C. As you said, heatwaves of 40-45 happen now and then but that's generally the peak of it, for now. I'm guessing @grecy is rounding up.
Yeah, he's BS'ing about Australian temps - I grew up in the northern hottest parts of Australia and worked the Western Deserts in the Pilbarra near Marble Bar .. "120F all the time" is bollocks.
As noted, the occasional 45 C heatwave for a few days is pretty much peak heat so far with anything approaching 48 C | 120 F being a rare event.
It's an hour and twenty minute walk from Slab City to the nearest civilized area (Niland), which is stretching "civilized" a little. You'll need a car to get to a hospital, clinic, or real supermarket, not just some water, and a hat.
I’ve been there, talked to people there, got invited to some people’s homes and explored some abandoned buildings around the area
It was just like a bunch of people trying to live or were fascinated with the idea of such a place
Honestly it’s just like another place with certain character. If you’re into art made from what’s available, stuff like graffiti and underground communities, and the kind of people who aren’t trying to fit in, it’s a really cool place. But otherwise it’s what it is
> It's really important to say that East Jesus Art Commune and Leonard's Mountain are not and never have been considered part of Slab City .... so it would help for you creators to actually find out about that before calling it part of The Slabs...it misleads people into believing the Slabs must be a very artistic place , which it is most certainly not...
Because of a Bad Mechanic screwing us ...we had the misfortune of living there for 2 straight years ...
The Real Slab City story is there is Garbage strewn everywhere , many people get attacked and bitten by very vicious Slab Dogs ...there are numerous serious fights leading to hospitalization and sometimes death ...women travelers get raped at least 3 times a year there ...Slabbers deliberately burn down peoples camps and RV's at least 11 times per year ....so if you like staying in a dangerous ghetto and can pretend that everywhere is just as trashed out as Slab City is ...you'll love that dump..
You can do a drive by if you're interested. We travelled down to see Salvation Mountain (which I think is worth a look), stopped at Bombay Beach and drove past Slab City. If it wasn't for Salvation Mountain, I don't know if I'd bother.
Driving through Wonder Valley elsewhere in California is interesting, and then reading about why almost every building is exactly the same size.
There are several documentaries set in Slab City or nearby towns Niland and Bombay Beach -- I found all of them fascinating. Sorry, don't remember titles.
A safer alternative destination might be the Fountain of Youth Spa, which has been there since at least the 1970s. But I'd check the recent reviews, and hold off until November at least.
There's overlap in travelers who work festivals in the summer, dpw at burningman and spend some of the winter in slab city.
There's also digital nomads doing vanlife there.
Much of the art has a distinct BRC vibe. The founder of East Jesus was a burner in the art car scene. Last winter there was a giant LED penis up at one of the camps, and spaceport 42 is a collection of 6 burned out trailer chassis planted vertically in the ground.
The article has an overlay wanting me to put in my email address. Can't seem to close it with the X in the corner. S9 Android with Chrome browser. Renders the website useless unless I put in my email
Seems like certain website elements haven't recovered from being hugged to death earlier, but the "x" is there, just not visible. Keep clicking and it will disappear.
SF is more common, generally. “The city” is used when talking to other bay area residents where context implies which city is the city. If you travel to NYC and tell people you live in the city they won’t know you mean SF. Of course, you should just call it San Francisco.
