The difference between rights in America and China are vast. Criticizing legitimate American counter-terrorism and counter espionage and suggesting that it's equivalent to China's suppression of thought of its citizens (and people in occupied zones like Tibet) are disingenuous. Dissent in China will get you a prison sentence or worse. Dissent in America will get your karma modded down. (Q.E.D) Want more relevant wikipedia links? click here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks AND here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship_in_the_Peop...
Actually in the USA we have 5x the prison rate of China.
Of course the official rates ignore people in "administrative detention" which is what China does to a lot of its political dissenters. But even if you add those back in, the USA has 4x the detention rate of China. (We are also ahead of every other country in the world.)
It would seem that if you're afraid of landing in prison, the USA is a much worse country to be in than China. Not slightly, much. (And a brief glance at the jail statistics will convince you that our justice system is not color-blind. For instance I've seen no data indicating that drug use rates are significantly different among whites and blacks. But incarceration rates for drugs are very, very different...)
There are certainly examples of persecuted dissidents in both countries. What I'm missing in China is any examples of dissidents who've achieved any success, comparable to American examples of dissidents in prominent, even state-sponsored roles. And, in particular, any ability of ordinary people to read and discuss what dissidents write. You and I can discuss Bradley Manning here. And I'll agree he is not being treated in a justifiable manner. Can Chinese citizens openly discuss dissidents, and criticize their governments' treatment of them?
For example, after Angela Davis (Black Panther activist) was acquitted, she became a tenured professor at the University of California, where she has, for several decades, continued to unapologetically oppose the United States government. And she's hardly the only one; there are many dissidents who are professors at American universities, some of which are even state-run universities. Noam Chomsky, of course, has not been removed from his professorship at MIT, despite his political views.
Are there any prominent Chinese dissidents who are now tenured professors at Chinese universities, without recanting? If we compare to Davis's role as a minority-group activist--- can you imagine a Tibetan or Xinjiang activist, who opposes the Chinese government's rule over those regions, becoming a tenured professor in China? Being able to teach courses openly about those disputes? Being able to publish critical books through the university press, which any ordinary person can order online with a few clicks? All of that happens in the United States, but doesn't happen in China.
I'm not hugely into political theory, but I read some of it, mostly tending towards the leftist side. And I am able to buy any of this in the United States, completely openly, even stuff much more radical than what I typically buy. Not even in backrooms or dark alleys, but from Amazon, delivered to my home address with my real name on the label! I can buy manifestos openly urging the overthrow of the United States government (under Brandenburg v. Ohio, these can't be prosecuted as treason). Can Chinese citizens openly buy manifestos urging the overthrow of the Chinese government?
Not directly relevant, but one should also recognize that there are examples of modern-day American academics who do suffer censure for being outspoken dissidents -- Norman Finkelstein being an example (http://www.americanradicalthefilm.com/).
There's a difference between "dissent" and "passing classified information to unauthorized sources". You can get away with criticizing the government here; you can't get away with espionage.
Playing fast and loose with facts continues to hurt your case.
Sklyarov - charges dropped.
Manning - U.S. soldier deliberately mishandled diplomatic cables.
Assange - I'm aware of no official charges or actions by the U.S.
I have a friend who's life was completely ruined by a federal criminal case before charges were ever even filed.
I'm not sure you understand the implications of "charges dropped". Sometimes that can consume 5+ years of one's life, sometimes part or all of that imprisoned. It always costs a fortune, too.
If you aren't aware of what the US is planning for Assange, you're not paying attention. This is the same government that thinks that people at the New York Times should be indicted for espionage.
Would you hire someone who was facing charges of abusing children to look after your children? I probably wouldn't. The charges sometimes stick, no matter what happens after they are filed.
As for Assage, I assume you're aware of the way some US politicians have behaved.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/11/does-palin-want...
> Criticizing legitimate American counter-terrorism and counter espionage and suggesting that it's equivalent to China's suppression of thought of its citizens (and people in occupied zones like Tibet) are disingenuous.
However, what is not disingenuous is characterizing American behavior vis-a-vis the propaganda it espouses. That is a good test for any institution or country. Don't even need China here. Compare what happens in US and what US does internationally vs. what US govt and many of its citizens believe or tell others about America. "We are a beacon of democracy " that's a common idea. So now let's see how is the power distributed in US? Does the average citizen have the power to make decision and is that comparable to what the propaganda fantasy is promoting. How about another one "US Constitution protects us from unreasonable searches and severely restricts the power of the government from invading our privacy". A lot of people believe that (doesn't matter if they are Americans or not). Is that true compared to the number of people believing in that? I say it is not. A lot of people are living a lie, believing in a fantasy about the government that is not based in reality. I say that is unhealthy.
Something similar is happening in China or other repressive governments. People are lead to believe in things that are divorced from reality. "We are a paradise". "American Imperialists are out to destroy US" and so on.
There is actually one difference. In some countries (and I can speak for the former Soviet Union during its last days) people knew propaganda was lie and they laughed at it in private. We knew the image we were supposed to have about our country was false. Many Americans are not aware of it. The brainwashing is so effective, they actually believe we are exporting democracy in the Middle East. They believe we have the best health care system . Heck, many believe evolution is a big lie. There is a great amount of self delusion and self censorship. That is unhealthy.
So going back to the comparison. You are right, comparing US to China in absolute terms in certain areas, is like night and day. Say, when it comes to freedom of speech. You can grab a megaphone and go yell out crazy conspiracy stuff right by Obama's front gate. But if you look at the level of delusion, the situation, I think is not as great.
The philosopher Zizek has a great bit about the "unknown knowns" (the quadrant Rumsfeld wasn't smart enough to articulate). Meaning, of course, the unperceived fabric of Western ideology -- that works far better than explicit propaganda ever could.
