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Everything You Know About Fitness Is a Lie (2010) (mensjournal.com)
48 points by 001sky on March 10, 2014 | hide | past | favorite | 66 comments


I discovered what this author is saying with this site:

http://stronglifts.com/

And I've been doing the Reg Park 5x5 routine ever since, and for the first time in my life I love working out. Short, powerful and intense.

As Mehdi would say: Stop wasting your time with all that bullshit! Get strong!


I absolutely hated StrongLifts. If you have godlike genes it will work great; unfortunately I ended up having a month-long plateau that made me dread going to the gym (StrongLifts makes you "work until failure" a certain number of times before you take weight off your exercises, which sounds OK until your sets are going 3-1-1-0-0 2-3 times a week for multiple weeks). Psychologically, working to failure makes you feel like absolute shit.

Also, they never mention this anywhere, but do not start a weight training program if you are overweight! It's very difficult to build muscle while eating at a caloric deficit. The absolute best way to get into shape first is to lose weight with a lower calorie diet and cardio. Once you're slim, then you can start bulking if you want more muscle.

You'll hear people say things like "weight training raises your metabolism so you're burning more calories while at rest." This is largely a myth that experimental data has disproven. Men have a difficult time with this because there's a certain machismo factor when it comes to weight lifting, but please resist the urge!


I don't set the weight so high as to do 3-1-1-0-0. I set the weight so I can do 5 reps on every set. except maybe the last one or two doing 4 reps, failing on the 5th. If I can't do 5 reps on all 5 sets I stay on the weight I'm on. Until I complete the last 5th set 5th rep without failing. Then I add 2.5kg next time. I only work out at the moment every 5 days.


"do not start a weight training program if you are overweight"

A better way of saying that might be "do not start a weight training program if you are on a calorie-reduced diet".

Some will argue that you're better off converting fat into muscle via a strength program than losing weight, at least to start. That's an individual choice, though.


> Some will argue that you're better off converting fat into muscle via a strength program than losing weight, at least to start. That's an individual choice, though.

That's not an individual choice; it's a good indicator that the person you're talking to doesn't know what they're talking about. There is no such thing as "converting" fat into muscle. They're different cell tissues, and if the person dispensing the advice doesn't pay respect to that fact, it's unlikely their advice is worth following.

Think about it from a technology perspective. Having a more subtle understanding of a technology allows you to develop better problem solving strategies. If the depth of one's troubleshooting strategy is limited to "turn it off, then back on again", they might be able to reach a solution most of the time, but they can't help you past the point that their single-vector solution fails.

The same applies to fitness. A better understanding of the human body yields more nuanced advice, and more effective results.


That's a common expression used by lots of people who understand that the process is more complicated than that.

Pedants might make good scientists but they're unlikely to be good instructors.


A month is nothing. I lift competitively and you can plateau in some or fashion for years. Fitness is a lifetime activity of slow and steady progress and not quick, unsustainable schemes. Enjoy the journey :)


How does the Reg Park 5x5 compare with Stronglifts? I've been doing SL for a while but I possibly need to move on as I can no longer sustain 5x5 squats tree times a week - it totally wipes me out (I'm squatting about 1.2 x BW and DLing 1.6 x BW).

Interested to know your thoughts on Reg Park 5x5.


I'm just beginning (squat 0.8xBW. deadlift 1 x BW). Phase one of Reg Park is even simpler than SL. I can't do three times a week. My body is just too sore. I really enjoy it. Just 30 minutes every 4 or 5 days. I use a gym but I'm not a member, just pay casual. I like the feeling of the safety of the cage in squats and having proper gear. At first was going once a week. Now at every 4 or 5 days.

It wipes me out too.


Stop doing squats 3 times a week. It's a beginner's move, and only valuable if you're planning to be a competitive powerlifter. I moved onto a more traditional 4-day split (chest, shoulders, back, legs) years ago and it's much more fun and productive.


Maybe it's just the phrasing, but the squat is in no way a beginner move. Maybe squatting 3 times per week is a beginners move? To that I agree - as the weight gets heavier, you can no longer recover quickly enough.

But the squat should be the key exercise for everyone who is interested in strength and/or mass. It uses, directly or indirectly, about 2/3 of your total muscle mass (compared to all time favourite gym goer bicep curl, which involves a staggering 2% of your muscle mass), and was reported to be the exercise that causes the highest level of growth hormone release.


You can limit any heavy exercise to two or even one set, it gives you 50% or 80% of train to failure effectiveness, but allows for faster recovery (due to less stress on nervous system).


Stop doing 4-day splits. It's intermediate move and only valuable if you are not result oriented at all. I moved from 3-day splits to more traditional hypertrophy-specific full-body exercise set and it is much more fun and productive.

BTW, StrongLifts 5x5 employs some principles from hypertrophy-specific training programming which is why it works.


'Gaining muscle and strength' ( per that SL site ) does not equate to fitness.

I'm very lean, not very muscular. I've never used a bench-press in my life. But I can outswim and outrun many 'buff' guys with rippling muscles, because they're utterly unfit.


Swimming and running are poor indicators of fitness (other than perhaps endurance, if you're swimming/running over a matter of miles). They require more technique than fitness.

As someone nowhere near the traditional definition of "fit", I can still out-swim 99% of the people I run across at the gym over short-medium distances, simply because I have technique they don't have from spending 16 years doing competitive swimming.


TL;DR squats, dead lifts and bench presses are the fundamental exercises to build strength. But if that's really news to you then I don't know what kind of "gym" you've been going to.


Most of the newbs are afraid of these exercises and they are right to do so, because if you don't do it right you can have some premium level traumas. The gym I started in had at least 2 professional trainers at all times circling the floor and correcting, advising everyone. Unfortunately most of the western gyms nowadays don't use this approach and instead offer "everything or nothing" - either train without supervision whatsoever or pay a fortune for a personal trainer.


And then, somebody came along and made another program out of it called stronglifts: http://stronglifts.com/


I've been doing Stronglifts for about a year and I can say that my own experience backs up the "lift heavy weights and do compound exercises using free weights" that the original article suggests. I'd messed around with routines from Men's Health and other magazines at various times over the years and got nowhere at all. I'm now doing far less exercise than I did with those routines and am seeing real progress.

Stronglifts is a routine for beginners and the 5x5 three times a week soon gets too much as you start squatting heavier amounts - I had to drop to squatting once or twice a weeks once I started squatting about 1x my own body weight (about 250 lb).

Based on personal experience alone I thoroughly recommend Stronglifts and Starting Strength as a good way to obtain good general fitness and to lose weight. Squatting and dead-lifting are whole body exercises that really do work the whole of you - it's surprising how much your abs and glutes hurt after some squats.

A word of warning: you must start with light weights and work on doing each exercise properly - and I mean stupidly light to start with, start with just the bar if you are completely out of shape. If you try and start with impressive-looking heavy weights then you'll be resting up with a bad back before you know it.


any advice on how to squat with weak, tender knees that hurt on their own before even starting a program?


Take plenty of time to warm up before doing anything with weight, and pay close attention to form. Never let your knees go in front of your toes!

The good news is that all my knee problems basically disappeared once I started doing some strength training. Hopefully it'll work for you too.


after being sedentary for a long time my weight ballooned to 220lbs/100kg I didn't feel strong or actually I was week. So I started working out in a gym, but figured it was costing to much time and I didn't like it. now I do mostly body weight training (You are your own gym) and running an biking for fun. Some times I do a different program like Rush Fit which is very fun to do. in a year time I have lost a lot of weight and gained a lot of mussel and I feel much better. it only takes me 20-45 minutes a day 4-6 days a week.

So yeah the 10 pages are right as far as I'm concerned ;)


The original idea of using the exercises and sports that make people strong: weight lifting, gymnastics, track and field.. is a very good one. But there are a series of problems at Crossfit, check this article http://www.roypumphrey.com/crossfit-my-take-once-and-for-all...

The good news is that a good Crossfit box with a coach that knows what he is doing (personalization of loads and times, periodization, teaching proper technique, etc..) can remove all the problems related to Crossfit as the HQ understands it.


But 20-45 minutes a day 4-6 days a week is completely unobtainable for most people.


I have found 30 minutes, 6 days a week, to either run or bike for 5 years. I probably miss ~5 days a year on it, where I have to skip a few days in a row. I have two kids under 3 as well. It's not easy. I have to wake up early (5am) even on the weekends, but that's the time I can control while the kids sleep.


I just simply can't believe that. Everybody has an extra 2.5 hours a week, if you don't, then there's some _very_ serious issue with your schedule.


Eh, I believe it. 45 minutes a day doesn't count the trip to/from the gym, post-workout shower, changing, etc., and really, the people I know that actually get results from going to the gym end up spending way longer than 45 minutes there. 2-3 hours isn't unheard of. I only really say any of this because I feel like every fitness-related internet post has been along the lines of "no more excuses; if I can do it, then anyone can," which apparently isn't working.


My workouts are recently down to 30-40 minutes. Even less on a fasting day :). I have an advantage that the company has a gym, though, so there's no extra trip. My workouts are a combination of weight exercises (big 3: squat, bench press, deadlift + occasional cleans), bodyweight exercises (mostly along the lines of "Convict conditioning" books 1 and 2, and some stretching. Today, for example, in about 40 min I did (plus some stretching)

Barbell Squats 3 sets of 5

Pull-ups 3 sets of 9

Stand-to stand bridge 3 sets of 2

A static exercise on abs - 2x60s

The "secret" is that I move between exercises and sets with very little rest, I.e. do squats, then do pull ups, then back to squats - while the leg muscles get some rest, the back and arms do the work and vice versa. Of course, you need some aerobic fitness for that so you don't run out of breath. I know 2-3 hours are not unheard of, but, unless one plans to compete as a bodybuilder, diminishing returns kick in pretty fast. Even worse, one can overtrain and extra time will be very counterproductive in this case.

Of course, if you are, for example, a competitive powerlifter (I did that for a few years), you should train in a very different way - i.e. only do one exercise at a time, and have longer breaks between set etc., but if your goal is primarily health you may be way more flexible in your approach.

Another example - once a week I run home from work. It's 10 km, so takes about an hour. However, a bus takes at least 40 min, sometimes a bit more. So - I spend only 20 extra minutes, but I get a full hour of exercise! There are always ways to optimise.


That why I do the at home stuff, you don't have travel time and other time wasting gym related bs.


Do most people watch TV? Read newspapers? Play computer games? Have Facebook accounts? Surf internet?

It's (almost) always a question of priorities, not lack of actual physical time.


'Unobtainable' is probably the wrong word for it. Most people, even those who set out to will not do it long term. That includes me and it's true. But calling it unobtainable makes it seem like it is outside an individual's control which it is not.

IMO, it is probably not more difficult (or obtainable) for most than following a good dietary regime long term.



But yet we find 3-5 hours a day for watching TV?


I'd say that their physical health is only one of their problems if that's the case.


TLDR from someone who spent a sad amount of time assessing the article:

Page 2: For (general)strength, don't sit at isolated-muscle machines. Page 3: Don't stick to low weights and core exercises if you're going to suddenly switch outlook and judge yourself on strength and classic squats etc. Page 4: For strength - low reps Page 5: Again use more muscles

It probably filled ten magazine pages IRL.


I'm an engineer, so my life is all about logic. Logic suggests that healthy body would make me more productive, so I spend 7 days a week in a gym (1 hour each morning, 4 days of free weights and 3 days of cardio) and I always research and tune my diet. The result is that it does make me considerably more productive, improves energy levels, mood, etc. On top of that I have wider shoulders and visible abs. Bottom line is - you don't have to like working out and dieting, especially if you do it right, but you're gonna love the result.


I'd like to believe your anecdote but since I know lots of engineers that appear to be super productive and also very out of shape I'll have to counter your anecdotal evidence with mine :P

Note: I started working out about 7 months ago for my health regardless if it would make me more productive. I haven't noticed an increase in productivity, a better mood, or improved engery levels, but I do have a belief that I'm healthier


The end result depends on so much more than just working out. My first coach told me long time ago: the impact to the result is 30% working out and 70% diet. So there are quite a few questions that I'd ask, like: 1. Is your diet correct? Micro/Marco nutrients? Supplements? 2. Is your workout routine correct? Weights, cardio? 3. Did you check your hormone, thyroid, etc levels? Testosterone, HGH, etc?


I started working out 2 years ago and it changed my life for the better, but it most definitively didn't improve my productivity at work. Why would it?


Because of brain-derived neurotrophic factor. Look for connection between it and exercise.


> Down the road, if you're like me, you'll want to train multiple aptitudes at once: strength, power, and endurance. Things get complicated quickly when you're self-coaching for multiple aptitudes (...)

And yet, almost no word on that. Anyone has a follow up on how to move on from there? And where does flexibility fit in here? AFAIK, focusing only on strength will make you stiffer, and I'd rather be able to kick at head level than having a larger chest, assuming that's a XOR choice.


Think about it logically - lifting is stretching. If you lift correctly (form and full amplitude) and don't shy away from free weights it will increase your flexibility. Some info to back it up: http://breakingmuscle.com/mobility-recovery/can-lifting-weig...


This has been posted before. I'd post a link to the previous discussion if the HN Search was up.



I remember it too - it changed how I think about fitness then, and my mind remains changed!


Exercise always seemed like a huge time sink to me. I usually do it while watching tv. Doing it before bed also saves a shower.

The TV thing also helps me maintain a schedule - xyz cop show is on? Time to bust out the weights.


I have to say, you doing it wrong: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/18/fashion/18FITNESS.html

I used to do the same thing, now I don't use music or anything else to help me relieve the stress of exercise.


That article says that music and tv is beneficial to beginners. I guess I'm doing it right since it works for me, but hey to each his own.


I also find it more to be intellectually boring. When exercising, I don't feel as if I need to use my brain any more than what it takes to actually move. Compared to me sitting in a chair and reading/writing/studying. As listed above, I could be doing it wrong, but that is my biggest deterrent to exercise- it's boring as hell.


Exercise always seemed like a huge time sink to me. I usually do it while watching tv.

Funny how I would use a completely opposite statement, i.e. watching tv seemed like a huge time sink to me. So I removed it. :)


Watching TV kind of removes the psychological advantage of training.


Not an exactly match but this article makes me feel pretty good about crossfit, which I've been doing for a couple months now and have been making great gains with.


6 pages. Really. In age of tl;dr it is madness.


Let me try, quoting first sentence from Mark Rippetoe's book "Physical strength is the most important thing in your life."


Well, it is an article from 2010, in the good old days of content longer than 140 characters. :p


Nothing of substance can fit in a tweet.


What you just wrote is a counterexample.


The fact that it's a counterexample actually proves his point. :)


Maybe he got paid per word?


And the tl;dr version of this is?


TL;DR: do you even lift?


I used to read a lot of fitness articles without doing much. Since then I changed my attitude — I became a doer.

A fitness trainer once said that you can have access to the best training program in the world but if you don't actually do the exercises you'll get you nowhere. On the other hand, you can be given a crappy program and if you manage to do the exercises regularly, you'll still get results.

Fitness is simple. Sure there are lots of programs out there, but the basics always stay the same. Once you got the basics down it all comes down to doing.


+1 for "Fitness is simple" and "it all comes down to doing"


hardest part for me is starting up again


Sorry, but the article seems to contradict itself quite a lot, and aside from a lot of anecdotes about what worked for the author in particular, I don't see much actual useful information.


Do you even lift?




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